Title: A poverty of social capital

(0:00) And  anybody  in  my  view  who  has  a

(0:02) smartphone  has  no  claim  of  poverty.  And

(0:05) and  these  kids  are  not  poor.  Nobody  in

(0:08) America  frankly  is  poor.  There's  a

(0:10) poverty  of  social  capital,  a  poverty  of

(0:14) of  parenting,  a  poverty  of  of

(0:18) self-control.

(0:20) Uh  but  but  these  kids  are  not  doing  this

(0:23) because  they're  hungry.  They  steal.  They

(0:25) they  loot  uh  7-Elevens

(0:28) not  because  they're  they're  famished,

(0:31) but  because  it's  just  fun.  You  have  to

(0:33) do  three  things  to  basically  guarantee

(0:36) that  you  will  not  be  poor.  You  graduate

(0:38) from  high  school,  not  college.  Uh  you

(0:42) work  in  a  job,  any  job.  It  can  be  a  a

(0:45) minimum  wage  job  full-time.  And  you  do

(0:48) not  have  children  outside  of  marriage.

(0:50) You  wait  until  you're  married  before

(0:52) children.  do  those  three  things  which

(0:54) are  fundamentally  about  personal

(0:56) responsibility  and  you  won't  be  poor.

(1:00) The  function  of  government  is  to

(1:02) preserve  order  to  protect  property  uh  to

(1:06) make  to  create  the  infrastructure

(1:10) underpinnings

(1:12) of  society  so  that  individuals  can  seize

(1:16) opportunities  and  thrive.  But  that's

(1:19) government  has  totally  abdicated  on

(1:21) those  responsibilities  of  protecting  law

(1:24) and  order,  protecting  property  rights

(1:26) and  has  simply  turned  itself  into  a  a  a

(1:30) cash  dispensation

(1:32) machine.

(1:42) [music]

(1:47) >> [music]

(1:52) [music]

(1:59) >> I'm  honored  today  to  have  Heather

(2:01) Macdonald  with  us.  She  is  the  Thomas  J.

(2:04) Smith  fellow  at  the  City  Journal

(2:07) Manhattan  Institute.  Uh  she's  one  of  the

(2:10) best  uh  investigative  journalists,  if

(2:12) not  the  best  in  the  whole  nation.  Uh

(2:14) it's  an  honor  to  have  her  here.  Uh  she

(2:16) is  the  author  of  uh  let's  see,  the

(2:19) scourge  of  teen  takeovers.  When  youths

(2:21) are  rampaging  in  cities  across  America

(2:23) and  how  to  stop  it,  Heather,  tell  us  how

(2:25) that  topic  came  about.  Uh  how  long  it's

(2:27) been  a  problem,  what  can  we  do?

(2:31) Well,  the  article  came  about  because  uh

(2:34) there  was  intermittent  coverage  in  the

(2:37) media  of  these  mass  mobs  that  were

(2:40) rampaging  through  city  streets.  Uh  and  I

(2:44) got  the  sense  that  the  media  narrative

(2:46) was  probably  wildly  incomplete.

(2:49) Uh  it's  a  problem  that  the  media  dates

(2:52) as  a  result  of  postcoid  loneliness  and

(2:57) anomi  and  the  desperate  need  for

(2:59) connection.  Uh  they  attribute  it  to  uh

(3:03) capitalism  and  poverty  and  and  hunger.

(3:05) All  of  which  are  wildly  inaccurate.  uh

(3:08) on  the  on  the  COVID  front,  this  type  of

(3:12) mob  action  and  I  should  just  state  at

(3:15) the  outset  uh  this  is  a  racially

(3:20) charged,  racially  tinged  issue  because

(3:24) these  are  overwhelmingly  almost  without

(3:27) exception,  you  know,  vast  majority  of  of

(3:30) these  participants,  they're  black

(3:32) teenagers.

(3:34) uh  and  that  the  media  refuses  to

(3:36) acknowledge  that  it  uses  very  anodine

(3:38) language.  Uh  you  know,  teen  takeovers,

(3:41) youth  and  whatnot.  Uh  but  this  sort  of

(3:45) mob  action  of  black

(3:48) inadequately  socialized  juveniles  way

(3:51) preceded  COVID.  of  you  know,  you  went

(3:54) back  to  the  Freaknick,  which  was  the

(3:56) Black  Spring  Break  uh  takeovers  of

(4:00) Atlanta  that  became  incredibly

(4:03) dangerous,  you  know,  characterized  by

(4:06) robberies,  by  lootings,  by  massive

(4:08) sexual  assaults.  Uh,  in  the  in  the  1990s

(4:13) and  and  2000s,  Chicago  regularly  had

(4:17) mobs  of  youth  going  along  bashing

(4:20) pedestrians,  looting  stores,  other

(4:22) cities  as  well.  Um,  and  so  this

(4:28) manifestation  of  a  breakdown  in  black

(4:32) socialization  has  been  going  on  for  a

(4:35) very  long  time.  uh  but  for  some  reason

(4:38) now  it's  getting  a  lot  more  attention

(4:40) and  the  COVID  explanation

(4:43) is  also  uh  totally  specious  because  if

(4:46) it  were  the  case  that

(4:49) COVID  had  led  to  terrible  loneliness  on

(4:52) the  part  of  youth  i.e.  black  youth  that

(4:56) has  created,  as  one  uh  fellow  at  AEI

(4:59) said,  a  desperate  longing  for

(5:01) connection.  You  would  expect  everybody

(5:03) to  have  been  equally  affected.  But  white

(5:07) youth  overwhelmingly  are  not  engaged  in

(5:11) these  so-called  takeovers.

(5:13) And  even  though  they  were  probably

(5:16) subject  to  more  draconian  lockdown  rules

(5:19) by  their  families  from  what  we  know

(5:22) about  average  differences  in  in

(5:24) parenting.  Uh  and  it's  also  not

(5:27) happening  in  Europe.  You  don't  have

(5:30) European  youth  rampaging

(5:34) uh  just  for  the  sake  of  it  and  and  going

(5:36) around  and  and  bashing  pedestrians  and

(5:39) stomping  on  cars  and  twerking  on  the  top

(5:41) of  police  cars.  even  though  Europe  was

(5:43) again  even  more  uh  fanatically

(5:47) rigorous  about  specious  lockdowns.  So

(5:52) this  is  something  that  is  not  attributed

(5:54) to  a  public  policy  or  COVID.  It  is

(5:57) something  that  is  internally  generated.

(6:02) >> Now

(6:04) you  you  are  you  do  wonderfully  in  the

(6:06) article  and  I  commend  people  not  to  read

(6:08) it.  Um,  [clears throat]

(6:10) but  these  are  there's  a  whole  like

(6:12) litany  of  excuses  that  are  brought  up,

(6:14) are  there  not?  There's  like  I  think  you

(6:17) have  seven  different  kind  of  general

(6:18) excuses  that  are  brought  up  why  this  is

(6:20) happening  um  as  well  as  condoning  it  in

(6:23) some  level  and  um  allowing  it  and  you

(6:26) know  Michael  the  late  Michael  Gerson  had

(6:27) the  soft  bigotry  of  low  expectations.  It

(6:30) seems  that  that  seems  always  to  be  part

(6:32) of  this  that  whatever  standards  are  set

(6:34) up  if  people  can't  meet  it  we  change  the

(6:36) standards.

(6:38) Well,  that  was  George  W.  Bush  who  used

(6:40) that  phrase  and  maybe  Gerson  wrote  it

(6:42) for  him.  I  don't  know.  Um,  but  yeah,  as

(6:46) I  say,  there  the  other  excuses  for  this.

(6:49) And  again,  these  these  are  very  violent

(6:51) incidents.  They're  not  always  they're

(6:53) they're  organized  on  social  media.  Um,

(6:56) but  they're  certainly  intimidating,  but

(6:58) they  result  in  shootings  of

(7:02) participants,  shootings  of  uh  passers

(7:05) by,  police  officers  getting  assaulted.

(7:08) There's  over  the  Fourth  of  July  weekend

(7:11) um  in  in  North  Charleston,  there  was  a

(7:15) female  officer  who  had  was  trying  to

(7:18) control  this  anarchy  and  there's  video

(7:22) of  still  available.  other  others  of  it

(7:24) get  scrubbed  off  the  web  of  a  group  of

(7:27) mostly  females  just  attacking  her

(7:30) brutally.  She's  down  on  the  ground.

(7:31) They're  punching  on  her.  They're

(7:33) stomping  on  her.  Um  so  these  incidents

(7:38) are  are  extremely  lawless  or  can  be.  Um,

(7:45) so  people  are  right  to  be  concerned

(7:47) about  them,  but  the  excuses  for  it,

(7:51) as  I  said,  it's  there's  COVID,  there's

(7:54) also  hunger,  uh,  you  know,  as  if  as  if

(7:58) you  go  and  you  you  attack  officers

(8:01) because  you're  hungry,  uh,  or  poverty.

(8:05) All  of  these  kids  have  smartphones.  This

(8:08) is  a  social  media  generated  phenomenon.

(8:12) And  once  the  gatherings  uh  and  kind  of

(8:16) cold  riots  occur,

(8:19) everybody  is  filming,  the  participants

(8:22) film  each  other  engaged  in  violence  in

(8:24) the  hope  of  getting  a  viral  video  posted

(8:27) on  Instagram.  Um,

(8:32) and  anybody  in  my  view  who  has  a

(8:34) smartphone  has  no  claim  of  poverty.  And

(8:37) and  these  kids  are  not  poor.  Nobody  in

(8:40) America,  frankly,  is  poor.  There's  a

(8:43) poverty  of  social  capital,  a  poverty  of

(8:46) of  parenting,  a  poverty  of  of

(8:50) self-control.

(8:52) Uh  but  but  these  kids  are  not  doing  this

(8:55) because  they're  hungry.  They  steal.  They

(8:57) they  loot  uh  7-Elevens  [snorts]

(9:00) not  because  they're  they're  famished,

(9:03) but  because  it's  just  fun.  The  the

(9:05) stores  are  open  late  at  night.  they're

(9:07) poorly  guarded  and  they  can  intimidate

(9:10) the  the  cashiers.  Uh  other  explanations,

(9:13) Brandon  Johnson,  the  the  absolutely

(9:15) atrocious  mayor  of  Chicago,  uh  he

(9:18) routinely  excuses

(9:20) urban  violence,  and  I'm  using  urban  as

(9:22) the  official  euphemism,

(9:25) uh  as  a  lack  of  opportunities.  Well,

(9:29) yes.  Obviously,  if  you're  raised  by  two

(9:34) parents  in  Streeterville,  a  a  more  a

(9:36) downtown  area  of  Chicago  that  is  uh

(9:40) wellto-d  do  as  opposed  to  being  raised

(9:43) by  a  single  mother  on  the  south  side  of

(9:45) Chicago,  you  do  come  into  life  with  a

(9:49) lot  more  resources  available  to  you.  But

(9:52) frankly,  the  biggest  difference  uh  that

(9:56) matters  between  those  two  households  is

(9:59) the  absence  of  a  father  in  the  Southside

(10:02) case  and  the  absence  of  a  marriage

(10:04) culture  in  that  community  versus  having

(10:09) the  psychological  moral  resources  of  a

(10:13) father.  And  if  you're  a  black  student

(10:16) and  you

(10:18) obey  the  law,  don't  get  involved  in

(10:20) crime.  um  graduate  from  high  school,

(10:24) maintain  a  decent  GPA,  you  will  be

(10:27) courted  by

(10:29) hundreds  of  colleges  across  the  country

(10:32) who  are  desperate  for  your  presence  so

(10:34) they  can  get  their  diversity  statistics

(10:36) up.  So  this  is  not  a  country  at  this

(10:39) point  that  denies  opportunity  to  people

(10:41) who  show  a  willingness  to  play  by  the

(10:45) rules.  Uh  and  and  but  because  of  these

(10:49) excuses

(10:51) that  are  driven  by  the  concept  of

(10:53) disperate  impact,  which  is  that  any

(10:55) standard,  any  law  enforcement  standard,

(10:58) any  meritocratic  standard  that  has  a

(11:00) negative  disperate  impact  on  blacks,

(11:02) whether  it's  a  a  requirement  that  you

(11:05) actually  have  decent  MCATs  to  get  into

(11:08) medical  school,  if  that  results  in  a

(11:11) lack  of  proportional  representation  of

(11:14) black  medical  students,  then  the

(11:16) explanation  is  that  those  standards  are

(11:17) racist.  Or  if  it's  a  law  enforcement

(11:20) standard  that  says  you  shall  not

(11:22) shoplift,  you  shall  not  trespass,  you

(11:25) shall  not  turn  style  jump.  And  that

(11:27) results  in  a  disproportionate  number  of

(11:30) blacks  being  involved  in  the  criminal

(11:33) justice  system  because  not  because  the

(11:36) laws  are  racist,  but  because  objectively

(11:39) uh  and  the  data  is  irrefutable,  blacks

(11:42) commit  rates  of  crime  at  much  much

(11:45) higher  rates.  In  Washington  DC,  blacks

(11:48) commit  homicide  at  99  times  the  rate  of

(11:52) whites.  uh  those  types  of  disparities

(11:55) are  typical.  Um  so  as  a  result  of

(12:00) wanting  to  avoid  disperate  impact  even

(12:02) though  it's  a  inevitable

(12:05) consequence  of  large  behavioral

(12:07) differences,  we  are  unwinding  the

(12:10) criminal  justice  system.  That's  why

(12:12) these  progressive  prosecutors  are  not

(12:15) prosecuting  a  whole  range  of  crimes

(12:17) because  they  don't  want  to  put  uh  more

(12:20) black  criminals  in  jail.  And  we  are

(12:22) especially  unwinding  the  juvenile

(12:24) justice  system  in  liberal  jurisdictions.

(12:27) So  it  becomes  almost  impossible  to

(12:30) impose  meaningful  consequences  on

(12:32) juvenile  criminals.  That  message  gets

(12:34) out.  Um  and  again  that  is  a  change  that

(12:38) is  race  racially  driven.  Uh  and  it  sends

(12:41) a  message  to  kids  that  we  have  virtually

(12:45) low  low  to  zero  expectations  for  you  and

(12:50) you  can  expect  to  be  excused  by  the

(12:52) elites  and  granted  absolution  for

(12:57) lawless  behavior.

(12:58) >> Yeah.

(13:00) Tom  Wolf  wrote  about  this  in  the  late

(13:03) 60s,  early  70s

(13:06) um  [clears throat]  with  the  Black

(13:08) Panthers  kind  of  being  the  cat's  paw  of

(13:11) the  elites.  You  remember  that?  Do  you

(13:13) know  Tom  Wolf?  Um

(13:16) >> Tom  Wolf,

(13:17) >> but  so  it's

(13:18) >> Did  you  say  Tom  Wolf?  I  I  didn't  hear

(13:20) you.  Tom  Wolf.

(13:21) >> Yeah,  Tom  Wolf  wrote  about  the

(13:23) >> Yeah,  it  was  kind  of

(13:24) >> the  cocktail  party  fawning  over  the

(13:26) Black  Panthers.  It  seems  like  it's  a  a

(13:29) standard  kind  of  trope  and  a  lot  of  that

(13:31) kind  of  plays  into

(13:34) um  this  idea  that  somehow

(13:37) that  that  kind  of  behavior  is

(13:39) acceptable.  It's  that  that's  that's  kind

(13:41) of  within  the  realm.  You  know,  Thomas

(13:43) Soul  wrote  um  was  it  white  white  liberal

(13:46) was  it  um

(13:48) black  rednecks  white  liberals  or  white

(13:50) liberals  black  rednecks  on  the  same

(13:52) phenomenon  that  um  whites  out  of  out  of

(13:55) kind  of  fear  um

(13:58) have  have  no  better  expectation  of

(14:00) blacks  than  some  of  the  fearal  behavior

(14:03) that  was  patterned  on  the  white  rednecks

(14:06) from  the  areas  in  which  blacks  left

(14:09) slavery.  And  so,  you  know,  it  it  just

(14:12) doesn't  seem  right  to  me  that  um  we

(14:15) should  have  some  different  layers  of

(14:16) expectation,  but  that  seems  to  be  the

(14:18) case  no  matter  what.

(14:21) >> Well,  white  guilt  is  is  very  deep.  Uh

(14:24) it's  understandable,  but  the  country  has

(14:28) changed  enormously  from  the  Jim  Crow

(14:31) days,  from  the  days  of  of  informal

(14:35) uh  petty  humiliation  and  cruelty  towards

(14:39) blacks.  We  are  not  that  country  now.  Um,

(14:43) and  I  think  whites  are  terrified  that

(14:45) the  disparities  are  not  going  to  go  away

(14:49) and  they  have  come  up  preemptively  with

(14:51) the  only  allowable  explanation  for  those

(14:53) disparities,  which  is  ongoing  white

(14:56) racism.  Uh  and  as  far  as  the

(14:58) glorification  of  black  underclass

(15:02) behavior,

(15:04) uh  there  was  a  tragic

(15:07) uh  transformation

(15:09) of  the

(15:12) shared  black

(15:15) uh  aspirational  culture  that  you  still

(15:19) saw  in  the  40s  and  50s  with  people  like

(15:22) Ella  Fitzgerald  and  Duke  Ellington

(15:24) dressed  to  the  nines.  uh  participating

(15:27) in  the  great  American  song  book  uh

(15:32) living  up  to  the  highest  expectations

(15:35) of  American  bourgeoa  society  and  yet

(15:38) they  were  still  heartbreakingly  excluded

(15:41) and  not  allowed  equal  access  to  hotels

(15:44) and  restaurants.

(15:46) That

(15:48) attempt  to  assimilate  into  American

(15:53) culture

(15:55) was  then  became  completely  stigmatized

(15:58) and  rejected  in  the  1960s

(16:01) with  the  rise  more  broadly  of  of  youth

(16:04) culture  and  the  glorification  of  student

(16:07) protest  that  was  enabled  by  the  massive

(16:12) affluence

(16:13) of  American  society.

(16:17) Thanks  to  capitalism  that  put

(16:19) independent  spending  power  in  the

(16:21) pockets  of  ignorant,  self-involved,

(16:25) narcissistic  adolescence  for  the  first

(16:27) time  in  human  history.  Um  and  so  the

(16:32) corporations,  the  business  world  started

(16:34) catering  to  adolescent  taste  which  again

(16:38) they  the  adolescence  thought  they  they

(16:40) controlled  the  world  and  that  they  their

(16:42) critique  of  American  society  and  of  the

(16:45) alleged  injustice  of  capitalism  was  the

(16:47) first  time  anybody  had  ever  cared  about

(16:49) seeming  inequalities  or  justice.  But  in

(16:52) the  black  community,  you  also  had  a  rise

(16:53) of  a  very

(16:56) virilent  oppositional  culture  embodied

(16:58) by  the  Panthers.  Uh  that  said,  it's

(17:02) over.  Uh  we're  no  longer  going  to  try  to

(17:06) integrate  and  and  win  the  approval  of

(17:10) white  society  by  adopting  bourgeoa

(17:12) norms.  We  are  now  set  up  in  opposition

(17:15) to  it.  And  that  is  a  recipe  for  failure.

(17:19) uh  those  bourgeoa  norms  are  not

(17:22) ultimately  colorcoded.

(17:24) Uh  they  are  neutral  and  they  apply  to

(17:28) all  people  and  they  are  a  recipe  for

(17:31) success.  Conservatives  have  long

(17:34) embraced  what  is  called  the  the  success

(17:36) formula  or  the  sex  ladder  which  says

(17:39) that  you  have  to  do  three  things  to

(17:42) basically  guarantee  that  you  will  not  be

(17:44) poor.  You  graduate  from  high  school,  not

(17:47) college.  uh  you  work  in  a  job,  any  job.

(17:51) It  can  be  a  a  minimum  wage  job,

(17:54) full-time,  and  you  do  not  have  children

(17:56) outside  of  marriage.  You  wait  until

(17:58) you're  married  before  children.  Do  those

(18:00) three  things  which  are  fundamentally

(18:03) about  personal  responsibility  and  you

(18:06) won't  be  poor  because  poverty  in  America

(18:09) today  is  overwhelmingly  linked  to  single

(18:11) parenthood.  Um  but  but  blacks  started

(18:14) rejecting  that  and  sadly  the  elites  like

(18:17) Leonard  Bernstein  uh  a  great  a  great

(18:20) composer,  a  great  conductor  but  sadly  an

(18:23) idiot  when  it  came  to  political  uh

(18:26) truths  and  relationships  uh  ended  up  uh

(18:30) glorifying  that  because  it  gave  them  the

(18:32) little  free  song  of  rebellion  and  and

(18:35) that's  still  out  there.  You  know,  Martin

(18:38) Luther  King  in  a  speech  from  1967  to  the

(18:41) American  Psychological  Association

(18:43) uh  on  why  blacks  were  looting,  he  had  it

(18:48) it  was  a  a  left-wing  tinged  speech.  He

(18:51) said,  "Well,  uh  they're  they're

(18:54) basically  doing  it  to

(18:57) upset  white  sensibilities,  and  they

(19:00) realize  that  these  whites  take  property

(19:03) rights  very  seriously."  that  the  subtext

(19:05) was  sort  of  too  seriously  and  so  if  they

(19:08) can  destroy  property  they'll  really  get

(19:11) whit's  attention.  Um  and  and  and  that

(19:17) was  the  case  and  we've  seen  this  in  all

(19:19) the  urban  riots  since  then,  whether  it

(19:21) was  the  Michael  Brown  Ferguson  riots,

(19:24) the  Freddy  Gay  riots,  uh  and  of  course

(19:27) the  George  Floyd  race  riots  that  were

(19:31) justified  by  the  media  and  by  the  elites

(19:34) as  an  understandable  reaction  to

(19:37) systemic  racism,  something  that

(19:40) Presidents  Barack  Obama  and  Joe  Biden

(19:43) never  tired  of  of  bashing  America  with

(19:47) the  the  preposterous  claim  that  black

(19:49) parents  were  right  to  fear  that  their

(19:51) children  would  be  killed  anytime  they

(19:53) stepped  outside,  meaning  by  a  a a  racist

(19:57) cop  or  by  a  white  person.  Uh  that's  just

(20:00) ludicrous.  Uh,  yes,  black  kids  face  a

(20:04) much  higher  risk  of  being  the  victim  of

(20:07) violent  crime.  Uh,  in  the  post  George

(20:10) Floyd  race  riot  era  in  four  major

(20:14) representative  cities,  uh,  black

(20:16) juveniles  were  a  hundred  times  more

(20:19) likely  to  be  shot  than  white  juveniles.

(20:22) But  the  people  who  are  making  black

(20:24) lives  shorter  than  the  national  average

(20:27) because  of  homicide  are  other  blacks.

(20:30) And  as  far  as  interracial  violence  goes,

(20:33) it's  almost  overwhelmingly  in  one

(20:36) direction.  It's  black  on  white,  not

(20:38) white  on  black.  a  very  liberal  uh

(20:42) scientific  organization,  the  National

(20:44) Association  ofMies  of  Science,  published

(20:47) a  report  led  by  Bruce  Wester,  a

(20:50) left-wing  uh  criminologist  at  Colombia

(20:54) that  found  that  blacks  were  35  times

(20:57) more  likely  to  commit  a  violent  crime

(21:00) against  a  white  person  than  a  white

(21:01) person  against  a  black  person.  That's

(21:03) the  reality.  And  yet  we  are  living  in

(21:06) utter  fiction

(21:08) uh  which  is  that  it's  whites  that  are

(21:12) posing  lethal  risks  to  blacks  and  not

(21:15) vice  versa.

(21:17) No,

(21:17) >> it's  a  it's  a  lot  there.  Um  you  know

(21:21) there's  there's  so  many  avenues  we  could

(21:23) we  could  go  down.  uh  just  of

(21:27) I I  while  while  you  were  talking  about

(21:28) kind  of  the  um  you  know  the  various

(21:30) terms  about  this  freak  neck  and  um

(21:32) wilding  and  all  that  kind  of  stuff  and

(21:34) this  also  the  knockout  game  it's

(21:36) terrifying  stuff  really  um  I'm  thinking

(21:40) what's  in  it  for  them  like  let's  say

(21:42) you're  in  that  you  know  you're  in  that

(21:44) mindset  you're  a  young  black  male  um  how

(21:47) is  this  an  acquisitive  thing  you  know

(21:49) men  especially  young  men  you  know  they

(21:52) generally  want  sex  they  want  um  like  all

(21:55) most  young  male  animals  across  the

(21:58) board,  they  want  they  want  to  acquire

(22:01) mate  and  they  want  to  acquire  maybe  not

(22:03) a  mate  but  you  know  the  sexual  act  and

(22:05) and  so  forth.  Um  it  seems  like  the

(22:07) currency  therein  has  been  so  kind  of

(22:10) devalued  that  women  have  taken  away  the

(22:12) kind  of  the  gatekeeping  function  of

(22:14) civilizing  men  by  you  know  withholding.

(22:17) You  know  the  idea  is  like  if  you

(22:19) withhold  to  marriage  then  guys  have  to

(22:20) like  get  a  job  they  have  to  clean  up.

(22:22) You  know,  I  when  I  was  doing  my  uh  kind

(22:24) of  de-  addiction  part  of  my  regular

(22:27) medical  practice,  I  came  up  with  an  idea

(22:29) and  I  made  it  into  a  short  video.  I

(22:30) called  it  porno  or  the  prom.  Actually,

(22:32) that  wasn't  the  title,  but  that  was  a

(22:34) subset  within  this  video  that  men  can,

(22:37) you  know,  they  can  get  an  orgasm,  you

(22:40) know,  very  easily  with  pornography.  Or

(22:42) you  could  go  through  the  prom,  which  is

(22:44) kind  of  much  more  of  a  grooming  thing.

(22:46) It  needs  a  lot  more  work  and  it's  kind

(22:47) of  the  avenue  of  civilization.

(22:50) It  seems  like  they  kind  of  have,  you

(22:52) know,  blurred  those  lines.  And  the

(22:54) women,  you  know,  the  twerking,  all  this

(22:56) kind  of  stuff,  the  sexual  availability,

(22:58) it's  it's  um,  you  know,  there's  the

(23:01) marketplace  that  that  ordinarily

(23:03) requires  some  civility  and  civility

(23:05) being  the  essence  of  civilization  that

(23:07) seems  all  taken  away.  Um,  is  there  is

(23:10) there  any  kind  of  putting  the  uh,  you

(23:12) know,  genie  back  in  the  bottle  or  or

(23:15) whatever  the  term  would  be?  Um,  is  there

(23:17) is  there  any  going  back?  Do  we  see

(23:18) anything  like  that?

(23:21) >> Well,  there's  certainly  movement  in  in

(23:23) some  conservative  circles  uh  to

(23:27) argue  for  the  absolute  essential

(23:32) status  of  marriage  for  children.  And  as

(23:35) you  say,  women  civilized  the  male

(23:37) libido.  Uh  the  male  libido  was  otherwise

(23:41) unchecked.  And  it  used  to  be  that  there

(23:44) was  a  marriage  script  for  males.  If  you

(23:47) your  hope  for  access  to  kitis  was  to

(23:52) make  yourself  an  attractive  mate  and

(23:55) that  meant  deferring  gratification,

(23:58) having  future  orientation,

(24:01) being  a  an  employable  person,  not

(24:05) blowing  up  at  your  uh  employer,  however

(24:08) obnoxious  he  may  be,  and  walking  off  the

(24:11) job  at  the  first  perceived  slight.  uh

(24:14) and  that  you  did  have  to  compete  for

(24:17) females  and  with  the  uh  anti-bourgeoa

(24:23) ethic  that  arose  in  the  60s  that  became

(24:27) p  that  that  ideal  of  self-control

(24:33) and  deferred  gratification  and  the

(24:36) female  modesty

(24:38) that  set  up  uh  barriers  to  promiscuity

(24:44) and  immediate  access  to  sex.

(24:47) Those  things  became  discredited

(24:49) and  you  had,  you  know,  flower  power  and

(24:53) the  the  free  love  of  the  1960s.

(24:57) Um  and  so  now  you  and  and  then  you  had

(24:59) feminism

(25:02) which  disparaged  masculinity  which

(25:04) disparaged  males  you  know  saw  them  as  a

(25:08) American  Psychology  Association  report

(25:11) from  several  years  ago  on  toxic

(25:13) masculinity  which  basically  was  meant

(25:16) all  males  like  there's  not  a  single

(25:19) non-toxic  male  out  there  unless  he's  a

(25:21) sort  of  an  NPR  uh  reporter  or  or  host  or

(25:26) or  100%  consumer  of  NPR.  Um,

(25:31) and  so  this  this  devaluing  of  the

(25:34) traditional  male  virtues  of

(25:37) competitiveness  and  and  you  know  the

(25:40) willingness  to  take  risk  uh  and  and  male

(25:43) bonding  and  and  obviously  male  virtues

(25:45) can  run  a  muck.  They  can  be  absolutely

(25:48) insane.  They  can  be  self-destructive,

(25:51) destroy  others.  Uh  but  they've  also  gave

(25:54) us  civilization.

(25:56) Feminism  said  all  of  that  is  awful  and

(25:59) oppressive  and  females  can  do  it  all.  Uh

(26:02) you  don't  need  a  a  husband  to  have

(26:05) children.  And  uh  we  had  the

(26:09) glorification.  I  mean  the  I  remember

(26:10) Lisa  Shiffren  wrote  an  article  about

(26:14) Murphy  Brown  which  I  never  saw  that  uh

(26:17) te  television  series  but  it  was  about  a

(26:21) single  mother  and  it  made  her  out  to  be

(26:24) a  heroine  and  Shiffron  rightly  said  this

(26:27) is  a  very  very  uh  negative  augury  for

(26:32) our  future.

(26:34) But  there  are  conservatives  today  who

(26:36) are  saying  no,  women  should  uh

(26:41) understand  that  raising  a  family  is  the

(26:46) most  important  thing  they  as  a  parent

(26:48) can  do  and  males  uh  should  be  venerated.

(26:53) Fathers  should  be  venerated.  But  that

(26:56) movement  is  routinely  mocked  by  the

(26:59) mainstream  media  like  the  New  York

(27:01) Times.  Um,  and  so  it's  it's  a  tough

(27:06) cell.  Uh,  even  a  lot  of  conservative

(27:09) women  have  bought  into  the  idea  that

(27:12) career  should  always  take  precedent.

(27:14) They  go  around  with  a  chip  on  their

(27:15) shoulder  believing  that  the  highest  and

(27:18) best  use  of  being  a  female  is  to  best

(27:22) males  in  terms  of  salary  and  promotion

(27:25) and  position.  Uh  because  they  believe

(27:28) that  otherwise  they're  caving  into  the

(27:30) patriarchy.  I  think  that's  ludicrous.

(27:33) But  it's  particularly  hard  to

(27:35) reconstruct  the  black  family

(27:38) at  at  this  point.  The  rates  of

(27:40) illegitimacy  are  they  were  they've  been

(27:42) as  high  as  71  72%.  They've  ticked  down  a

(27:46) little  bit  recently.  So  they're  maybe

(27:48) around  69  67%.

(27:50) But  it's  still  magnitudes  higher  than

(27:53) any  other  group.  And  it's  still  at  a

(27:55) cataclysmic  level.  the  the  cataclysm

(27:57) that  that  Daniel  Patrick  Moahan  foresaw

(28:01) in  his  Moahan  report  from  the  1960s  when

(28:05) he  was  asked  by  uh  President  Nixon  to

(28:09) analyze

(28:11) uh  what  was  happening  with  the  black

(28:13) civil  rights  movement  and  Moahan  said

(28:15) it's  going  to  come  to  a  grinding  halt

(28:17) any  progress  that  we've  made  so  far  in

(28:20) narrowing  uh  the  academic  skills  gaps

(28:23) the  crime  gaps  between  blacks  and  whites

(28:27) those  that  progress  is  going  to  stall

(28:29) because  of  the  breakdown  in  the  black

(28:31) family.  There's  so  many  black  males  that

(28:33) are  being  raised  without  a  father  uh

(28:35) that  they  are  not  going  to  be

(28:37) socialized.  They're  not  going  to  be

(28:39) capable  of  participating  in  our  economy.

(28:42) And  Moahan  sounded  the  alarm  about  the

(28:46) consequences  of  the  breakdown  of  the

(28:48) black  family  when  the  black  illegitimacy

(28:50) rate  was  23%.

(28:53) Today,  as  I  say,  it's  it's  hovers  around

(28:55) 70%.  So,  things  have  gotten  much  much

(28:58) worse  and  the  and  the  consequences  for

(29:02) black  socialization  that  much  worse.  But

(29:05) the  relationship  between  males  and

(29:08) females  in  the  black  community  is  very

(29:11) troubled.  It's  very  toxic.  There's  a  lot

(29:13) of  suspicion  and  mistrust.  So,  that  is

(29:17) going  to  be  a  tough  thing  to  overcome,

(29:20) but  it  has  to  come  from  within  the

(29:21) community.  Yeah,  when  you  talk  about

(29:23) that,  I  was  thinking  again  back  to

(29:25) Thomas  Soul,  um  the  [clears throat]  late

(29:27) and  great,  excuse  me,  the  current  and

(29:29) great,  the  non  non-aggenarian  out  at

(29:32) Stanford.  Um  but,  uh  you  know,  he  he  he

(29:35) goes  back  to  the  1950s  that  the  rate  of

(29:39) um

(29:41) black  economic  growth  was  at  its  highest

(29:43) in  1950s  and  it  was  really  kind  of

(29:45) reversed  and  stified  by  the  um  Great

(29:49) Society,  LBJ  and  so  forth.  And  a  lot  of

(29:52) the  the  plans  that  were  brought  into

(29:54) being  LBJ  famously,  although  was,  you

(29:58) know,  was  secondhand,  said,  you  know,

(30:00) I'll  get  I'll  get  the  the  n-words  voting

(30:03) for  me  for  the  next,  you  know,  hundred

(30:04) years  based  on  the  great  society  based

(30:06) on  giving  money  um  to  black  areas  and

(30:11) this  kind  of  concept  that  the  single

(30:13) mother  was  rewarded.  Now,  it  would  have

(30:14) been  sad  in  196,  you  know,  five  or

(30:17) whatever  it  be  a  single  mother  in  any

(30:20) case.  Uh  so  the  money  was  there  and  so

(30:22) everyone  started  to  gain  the  system  and

(30:24) create  even  fake  single  motherhood  by

(30:27) having  a  you  know  even  if  the  people

(30:29) were  together  by  feigning  being

(30:31) separated  and  after  a  while  it  just  kind

(30:33) of  fit  in  and  and  so  much  of  this  was

(30:35) grown  that  the  the  the  churchgoing  rate

(30:38) amongst  blacks  was  higher  than  amongst

(30:40) whites  in  the  1950s  and  the  1960s  and

(30:43) the  marriage  rate  was  identical  and

(30:44) everything  flipped.  if  if  we  could,  you

(30:46) know,  somehow  get  the  tuna,  you  know,

(30:48) toothpaste  back  in  that  tube,  uh,  I

(30:51) don't  know,  could  is  there  any

(30:52) possibility  on  on  withdrawing  some  of

(30:54) the  the  financial  incentives  towards

(30:57) single  parenthood  and  so  forth?  Is  there

(30:59) any  kind  of  institutional  way  of

(31:01) tweaking  the  system?

(31:04) >> Well,  uh,  President  Clinton  signed

(31:06) welfare  reform  in  1996  that  N.  Gingrich

(31:10) had  a  large  role  in  Wisconsin  had  been

(31:12) experimenting  with  work  requirements  and

(31:14) and  lifetime  limits  for  welfare  uh

(31:18) before  the  1996

(31:20) bill  called  TANIF  temporary  aid  to  needy

(31:23) families.  And  at  the  time  there  were

(31:25) people  that  were  making  proposals  like

(31:28) that.  Charles  Murray  was  proposing  uh

(31:32) that  you  don't  get  extra  cash  for  having

(31:35) more  children  out  of  wedlock.  Uh,  I

(31:38) think  Robert  Rector  at  the  Heritage

(31:40) Foundation  was  making  the  very  wise

(31:42) proposal  to  get  rid  of  food  stamps  and

(31:45) replace  it  with  food.  If  you  guys,  you

(31:47) know,  claim  that  you're  starving  and  you

(31:49) don't  have  enough  food,  we're  not  going

(31:51) to  give  you  food  stamps  that  you're

(31:52) going  to  be,  you  know,  allowed  to  spend

(31:54) on  buying  Coke.  Here's  some  cheese.

(31:58) Here's  some  surplus  food  that  the

(32:01) government  has,  healthy  food.  If  you're

(32:03) that  desperate,  you  should  want  it.  Um

(32:07) and  those  proposals  didn't  go  anywhere.

(32:11) Uh  there  was  all  the  energy  was  expended

(32:14) on  trying  to  have  a  five-year  lifetime

(32:18) cap  on  welfare  receipt  which  and  uh

(32:22) putting  in  some  very  ultimately  weak

(32:26) requirements  to  participate  in  some  kind

(32:29) of  community  service  job  a  few  hours  a

(32:32) week  to  qualify  for  what  had  been  called

(32:34) AFDC,  aid  to  families  with  dependent

(32:36) children.  Um,  and  so  that  era  of  more

(32:42) radical  rethinking  of  our  massive

(32:46) entitlement  system  seems  to  have  petered

(32:49) out.  I'm  not  aware  of  any  Republicans  or

(32:51) Trump  at  this  point  re-upping  those

(32:54) types  of  requirements.

(32:57) Ideally,

(32:58) uh  there  would  be  no  payments  for  single

(33:02) mothers  because  that's  a  very

(33:04) dysfunctional

(33:05) social  form.  Uh  and  I  think  cash  aid

(33:10) should  be  very  limited  in  all

(33:12) circumstances.  But  at  this  point,  that's

(33:15) what  government  views  as  its  primary

(33:17) role,  which  is  to  suck

(33:20) private  dollars  out  of  the  economy  from

(33:23) taxpayers  and  redistribute  them  to

(33:27) favored  victim  groups.  And  what  kills  me

(33:29) is  the  politicians

(33:31) uh  pride  themselves  on  their  courage  in

(33:35) expanding  entitlements  in  in  expanding

(33:39) the  amount  of  money  that  we  spend  on

(33:41) these  programs  that  don't  reward  work.

(33:44) They  don't  reward  uh  self-discipline.

(33:48) They  simply  reward  a  a  claim  of  poverty.

(33:51) Um

(33:53) and  and  that's  not  the  function  of

(33:56) government.  The  function  of  government

(33:57) is  to  preserve  order  to  protect

(34:00) property.  Uh  to  make  to  create  the

(34:05) infrastructure  underpinnings

(34:08) of  society  so  that  individuals  can  seize

(34:12) opportunities  and  thrive.  But  that's

(34:15) government  has  totally  abdicated  on

(34:17) those  responsibilities  of  protecting  law

(34:20) and  order,  protecting  property  rights

(34:22) and  has  simply  turned  itself  into  a  a  a

(34:26) cash  dispensation

(34:28) machine.

(34:30) >> So  let  me  uh  run  a  conspiracy  theory  by

(34:32) you.  [snorts]  Um  [clears throat]  so  I

(34:33) I've  I've  studied  a  lot  on  COVID  and  one

(34:36) of  the  things  about  China  and  COVID  is

(34:38) that  there  was  SARS  one  back  in  2003  and

(34:41) then  um  they  worked  really  hard  to

(34:43) create  a  vaccine.  They  couldn't  against

(34:45) SARS  because  there  had  been  upheaval  and

(34:48) there  were  actually  some  riots  in  China.

(34:51) It  was  not  the  Twitter  world  so  we  don't

(34:53) really  see  the  evidence  of  that  but

(34:55) people  were  being  moved  from  place  to

(34:56) place.  other  people  getting  some  of  the

(34:58) the  victims  didn't  like  that  and  China

(35:01) put  very  draconian  measures  up  um

(35:04) because  they  didn't  want  riots  that  that

(35:07) was  a  big  big  thing  when  they  went  to

(35:08) zero  COVID  in  the  year  subsequent  to

(35:10) 2020  part  of  it  is  they  didn't  want

(35:13) people  rioting  over  this  moving  people

(35:16) around  so  they  did  lockdowns  instead

(35:18) they  put  everybody  in  place  anyway

(35:20) hilarity  ensued  but  I  only  bring  this  up

(35:23) because  they  have  a  a  real  instinct  they

(35:25) don't  they  understand  that  riots,  I

(35:27) mean,  that's  how  the  the  Russian

(35:28) Revolution  got  there.  There  were  all

(35:29) kinds  of  revolution  attempts  in  the  in

(35:31) the  19th  century  all  throughout  Europe.

(35:34) Um,  and  I  I  lose  track  of  all  the  names.

(35:37) Um,  but  you  know,  they  understand  that

(35:40) these,  you  know,  upheavalss,  street

(35:42) riots,  whatever,  can  can  bring

(35:45) governments  down.  They  don't  want  that.

(35:46) That's  their  real  immunity.  So,  they

(35:47) have  a  something,  you  know,  they  have

(35:49) social  credit  score.  Um,  is  so  so so  the

(35:53) conspiracy  theory  would  be  this.  you

(35:55) know,  we  see  Antifa,  which  probably  has

(35:57) roots  elsewhere  and  and  historically,

(36:01) you  know,  the  Soviet  would  try  to

(36:02) manipulate  on  the  left  um  and  and  you

(36:05) know,  feed  certain  things  that  were

(36:07) innate  to  our  society,  various  racial

(36:09) inequities  and  what  inequalities  and  so

(36:11) forth  and  they  would  feed  movements  and

(36:12) probably  the  Black  Panthers  and  whatnot,

(36:14) you  know,  got  support  from  external  and

(36:16) probably  these  days  Antifa  does  as  well.

(36:18) Is  there  some  aspect  of  this  kind  of

(36:20) street  wilding,  whatever  you  want  to

(36:22) call  it,  these,  you  know,  uh  teen

(36:26) you  know  turmoil  that  that  is  is  fomment

(36:29) that  is  somehow  externally  applied  and

(36:32) is  it  in  any  way  you  know  part  of  kind

(36:35) of  destabilizing  from  the  left

(36:38) >> no  I  don't  think  so  I  I  I  do  not  buy  the

(36:42) idea  that  um  American  social  dysfunction

(36:46) is

(36:49) created  by  external  actors  or  even  exac

(36:53) exacerbated  by  them.  I  think  these  are

(36:55) internal  problems.  They  are  the

(36:58) foreseeable  result  of  certain  economic

(37:01) and  and  cultural  changes.  And  uh  the

(37:06) black  teens  who  are  organizing  these

(37:07) things  on  social  media,  they're  not

(37:11) prompted  by  China  to  do  that.  This  is

(37:14) their  own  uh  internal  culture.  And  I

(37:19) think  it's  a  copout  for  conservatives  to

(37:25) have  recourse  to  blaming  foreign  actors

(37:28) because  again  this  is  problems  of  our

(37:30) own  making  and  it's  up  to  us  to  solve

(37:32) them.

(37:33) >> No,  no,  I  I I  I  completely  agree  with

(37:34) you  in  that  part.  However,  you  know,  the

(37:36) defund  the  police,  the  um  you  know,  the

(37:40) growth  of  DSA,  you  know,  Democratic

(37:42) Socialist  America,  the  the  Shiovalia  and

(37:45) the  AOCC's  and  the  you  know,  you  lose

(37:47) track  of  naming  all  of  them.  um  Ilhan

(37:49) Omar  and  Rashid  sleep,  you  know,  this

(37:51) whole  movement  that  kind  of  came  up  with

(37:53) Obama  himself  that  the  police  were  the

(37:56) problem.  You  know,  he  had  his  famous

(37:57) beer  summit  with  the  Cambridge  guy  over

(38:00) Skip  Gates  um  and  whatnot.  This  this

(38:03) this  and  then  was  George  Zimmerman  and

(38:05) there  was,  you  know,  endless  number  of

(38:07) these  situations  where  our  institutions

(38:10) of  law  and  order  were  under  attack  and

(38:13) they  still  are.  And  so  at  some  point,

(38:15) this  old  Soviet  joke  um  about  the

(38:17) workers,  you  know,  they  pretend  to  pay

(38:19) us.  We  pretend  to  work.  At  some  point,

(38:21) the  police,  you  know,  as  you  mentioned

(38:22) in  your  article,  you  know,  they  must  be

(38:24) like,  you  know,  we  we  just  we're  going

(38:26) to  get  paid.  We'll  we'll  pretend  to  be

(38:28) policemen,  but  we're  not  going  to  go  out

(38:29) and  deal  with  this  because  you're  not,

(38:30) you  know,  you're  not  you're  not  dealing

(38:32) with  the  the  criminals.  You're  not

(38:34) putting  them  away.  So  that  all  that

(38:36) stuff,  all  the  kind  of  social  constructs

(38:38) that  are  keeping  these  kids  from  being

(38:40) prosecuted,  keeping  them  from  going  to

(38:42) jail,  keeping  them  from  the  schools  from

(38:44) reprimanding  them,  all  that  stuff,

(38:45) that's  all  kind  of  a  kind  of  leftist

(38:47) applique  that  that  somehow,  you  know,

(38:50) what  seems  to  me  encourages.

(38:53) >> I  just  don't  buy  it.  these  roots  are

(38:55) from  the  60s.  You  had  off  the  pigs,  you

(38:59) had  weathermen,  uh  all  these  radical

(39:02) groups  that  were  shooting  police

(39:04) officers,  kidnapping  them.  Uh  and  you

(39:08) had  the  growth  in  universities  of  a

(39:11) anti-American  narrative  that  uh  saw  the

(39:16) US  as  an  almost  uniquely  colonialist

(39:19) power  that  was  oppressing  the  third

(39:21) world.  you  had  the  rise  of  the  third

(39:23) world  ideology  that  then  became  really

(39:27) um  institutionalized  by  Edward  say  and

(39:31) the  whole  rise  of  postc  colonialism.

(39:33) Uh  so  this  has  been  going  on  way  before

(39:37) I  think  anybody  would  think  to  blame

(39:40) China  or  Qar  uh  on  our  for  our  for  our

(39:45) >> Yeah.  Well,  I  I  I  didn't  necessarily

(39:47) mean  to  stretch  it  that  far,  but  but  I

(39:48) do  think  that,  you  know,  a  lot  of  things

(39:50) you  actually  mentioned  in  your  article

(39:51) and  obviously  your  books,  um,  you  know,

(39:53) defund  the  police  and  all  that  kind  of

(39:54) stuff,  that  seems  to  be  like  some  kind

(39:57) of  weird  applique  that  doesn't  address

(39:59) the  problem.  It  doesn't  seem  like,  you

(40:01) know,  if  you're  in  the  neighborhoods  of

(40:02) the  south  side  of  Chicago,  you  won't

(40:04) want  to  defund  the  police.  Doesn't  see

(40:05) it  seems  counter  to  interest  of  the

(40:07) actual  people  themselves.  And

(40:09) >> but  that  doesn't  mean  of  course  there's

(40:11) a  lot  of  ideology  that  is  contrary  to  p

(40:15) to  self-interest  but  that  doesn't  mean

(40:17) it's  ide  it's  foreign  created.  It  means

(40:20) that  ideology  trumps  uh  in  many  cases

(40:24) material  reality  and  there  are  tribal

(40:28) affiliations  that  determine  voting  that

(40:32) override  what  what  for  us  seem  to  be

(40:35) perceived  obvious  self-interest.  Um  and

(40:39) and  of  course  so  blacks  do  keep  voting

(40:44) in  uh  politicians  like  Brandon  Johnson

(40:47) who  who  who  absolutely  calumny  the

(40:51) police.

(40:53) Um

(40:55) and  and  he  was  voted  in  because  of  the

(40:57) black  vote,  not  because  of  the

(40:58) progressive  white  vote.  But  that's

(41:02) because  there  is  for  one,  there's  tribal

(41:05) loyalties,  but  also  uh  there's  such  a

(41:09) dominant  narrative  that  says  the  police

(41:11) are  are  preying  on  black  Americans.  And

(41:16) this  is  believed  across  the  board,  not

(41:18) just  by  blacks,  but  by  a  large  part  of

(41:21) the  establishment,

(41:23) that  the  data  is  exactly  the  opposite.

(41:27) uh  the  percentage  of  blacks  killed  by  a

(41:31) police  officer.  Overwhelmingly,  those

(41:34) police  shootings  are  justified.  They're

(41:37) the  police  are  responding  to  a  a  threat

(41:39) of  somebody  who's  seems  armed,  violent,

(41:41) and  is  resisting  arrest.  Those  are  a

(41:45) minute  fraction  of  the  black  deaths,

(41:48) dozens  of  blacks  a  day  are  killed  by

(41:52) homicide.  that's  more  than  all  white  and

(41:54) Hispanic  homicide  victims  combined.

(41:57) That's  who's  shooting  blacks,  is  other

(41:59) blacks.  Uh  but  the  narrative  is  that

(42:02) it's  the  police  who  are  the  problem.  And

(42:04) so  people  believe  that  and  they  will

(42:07) vote  for  people  who  say  they're  going  to

(42:09) defund  the  police.  So  again,  I  just  I  I

(42:12) think  it's  a  mistake  to  look  at  all

(42:17) outside

(42:18) domestic

(42:20) ideology  for  explanations  for  behavior

(42:24) that  seems

(42:26) both  antisocial  and  uh  self-destructive.

(42:31) >> Right.  Well,  I  I  I  I'm  with  you  all

(42:33) that,  but  but  if  we  go  back  to  the  1990s

(42:36) and  and  that  what's  called  Freaknik,  I

(42:38) mean,  it  was  there  in  Atlanta  and  it

(42:40) stopped.  What  What  stopped  it  then  that

(42:42) wouldn't  stop  it  now?

(42:45) >> Uh  law  enforcement,  they  they  they  were

(42:48) undeterred  by  claims  of  racism.  Uh  and

(42:53) they  and  they  shut  it  down.  Uh  but  it

(42:56) merely  migrated,  you  know,  those  types

(42:59) of  large  spring  break  riots  went  to

(43:02) Miami  Beach  and  in  recent  years  those

(43:06) have  been  completely  out  of  control.  Uh

(43:09) again,  a  lot  of  sexual  assaults.  Several

(43:11) years  ago,  there  was  a  a  woman  who  was

(43:14) uh  sort  of  abducted,  given  drugs  by  two

(43:18) guys  and  raped  and  and  she  died  of  an

(43:21) overdose.  And  they  went  on  with  her

(43:23) credit  cards  to  go  on  a  a  a  spending

(43:25) spree  in  Miami.  Um,  and  the  mayor  there

(43:30) has  repeatedly  tried  to  crack  down  on

(43:33) order.  And  the  New  York  Times  inevitably

(43:36) writes  stories  about  how  racist  this  is

(43:38) because  the  the  participants  in  this

(43:42) lawlessness  are  black.  And  they  say,

(43:44) "Well,  why  aren't  they  cracking  down  on

(43:47) white  spring  break  gatherings  in  other

(43:49) places  in  Florida?"  Well,  it's  because

(43:51) they're  not  [laughter]  looting  stores

(43:53) and  they're  not  rampaging  and  they're

(43:54) not  shooting.  Um  but  but  you  know  the

(43:59) only  explanation  that's  allowed  for  that

(44:01) type  of  thing  uh  is  that  these  are

(44:04) victims  and  anybody  who  tries  to  quell

(44:07) the  disorder  is  a  racist.

(44:09) >> Yeah.  It  seems  like  that's  the  most

(44:10) powerful  thing  to  be  called  a  racist.  Uh

(44:13) is  that  is  that  have  has  that  worn  thin

(44:15) yet?  I  mean  are  people  getting

(44:16) inoculated  against  that?

(44:20) Well,  that  was  one  of  my  big  hopes  for

(44:23) at  least  four  years  of  a  Trump

(44:25) secondterm  presidency  was  that  he  is  so

(44:28) clearly  indifferent  to  being  called  a

(44:31) racist  that  it  would  uh

(44:36) encourage  other  people  to  say,  "Okay,

(44:38) you  can't  silence  me.  You  can't  browbeat

(44:41) me  into  compliance  with

(44:43) anti-marritocratic  policies  by  saying

(44:46) that  I'm  a  racist  for  believing  in

(44:48) standards  in  accomplishment.  Uh  but  I'm

(44:51) I'm  not  sure  and  certainly  the  the

(44:55) dominance  of  the  uh  anti-racism  ideology

(45:00) has  not  receded  one  iota  from

(45:03) universities.  Maybe  the  the  universities

(45:06) are  have  renamed  their  diversity  offices

(45:09) who  those  offices  are  exclusively  about

(45:12) cultivating  a  race  victimology  ideology.

(45:16) There  is  not  discrimination  going  on  in

(45:19) American  universities  today.  It's  a

(45:21) joke.  These  are  the  most  left-wing

(45:24) tolerant  of  diversity,  desperate  for

(45:26) diversity  institutions  in  human  history.

(45:30) uh  diversity  offices  are  just  there  to

(45:32) justify  racial  preferences  and  and

(45:34) demand  more.  Anyway,  they're  all  there

(45:37) uh  despite  Trump.  They've  just  re

(45:39) rebranded  themselves.  Schools  are  trying

(45:42) to  hold  on  to  as  much  racial  preferences

(45:45) and  admissions  that  they  can.  We  see

(45:47) this  in  law  schools.  The  Trump

(45:49) administration  is  investigating  UCLA  and

(45:52) Yale  for  racial  preferences  and  it's

(45:54) been  doing  so  for  Harvard  as  well.  So,

(45:58) you  know,  if  if  the  Democrats  take  the

(46:00) White  House  in  2028,  the  entire  racial

(46:04) regime  is  just  going  to  come  roaring

(46:06) back.

(46:07) >> Yeah.  Every  year  there's  um  a  couple

(46:10) kids  across  the  nation  who  get  into

(46:11) every  single  school  to  which  applied,

(46:13) you  know,  Stanford,  they  all  applied  as

(46:15) top  Stanford,  Harvard,  Yale,  MIT,

(46:17) whatever  it  happens  to  be.  Um  invariably

(46:19) that's  some  kid  on  Long  Island  who's  got

(46:21) Nigerian  parents.

(46:23) Um  I  don't  know if  you've  noticed  that.

(46:25) Um  it  it's  the  Nigerians  seem  to  have

(46:28) benefited

(46:30) in  point  of  fact  the  Nigerian  income  is

(46:33) higher  than  white  Americans  um

(46:35) generational  white  Americans.  So  not

(46:38) even  like  new  arises  from  wherever.  But

(46:41) the  Nigerians  as  far  as  the  racial

(46:43) narrative  go  Nigerian  Americans  have  an

(46:45) income  higher  than  the  standard  average

(46:47) of  whites.  And  uh  they  seem  to  have

(46:50) found  a  niche.  Maybe  they  have  their  own

(46:52) credit  and  and  you  know,  verve  and  and

(46:54) drive  and  whatnot,  but  they  also  seem  to

(46:55) have  filled  this  niche  of  wanting

(46:58) accomplished  law-abiding  blacks  that  the

(47:01) local  blacks,  you  know,  have  not  been

(47:03) able  to  fill.  So,  they  it's  basically

(47:06) been  imported.  So,  the  white  privilege

(47:08) or  the  white  guilt  or  whatever  has  been

(47:10) applied  to  somebody  of  that  color,  but

(47:12) not  linearly  or  generationally  descended

(47:15) from  slavery.  It's  just  kind  of  an  odd

(47:17) phenomenon.

(47:19) >> Yeah.  the  Cornell  Black  Student  Union

(47:21) protested  that  fact  maybe  10  years  ago

(47:25) um  noting  that  that  the  majority  of

(47:28) blacks  that  they  were  admitting  were  not

(47:31) African-Americans.

(47:32) Um  and  Nigerians  obviously  were  getting

(47:35) the  very  top  of  the  population  there.

(47:38) But  yeah,  it's  it's  ridiculous  and

(47:40) that's  true  at  Harvard  as  well.  Anyway,

(47:43) I'm  sort  of  running  out  of  time  now.

(47:44) >> Yeah,  perfect.  Well,  thank  you  so  much

(47:45) for  being  on.  Uh  so  uh  people  uh  can  buy

(47:48) your  book.  Uh  want  to  tell  us  about  your

(47:50) book  or  books  plural  uh  where  they  can

(47:53) get  them.  Uh  does  when  race  trumps  merit

(47:56) and  uh  the  other  ones  have  to  do  with  um

(47:59) the  police.  Can  you  tell  us  some  of  your

(48:00) titles?

(48:03) >> Well,  when  race  trumps  merit  is  my  most

(48:05) recent  book  and  that  recently  was

(48:06) reissued  in  paperback  with  a  new

(48:08) introduction.  uh  and  that  deals  with  a

(48:11) lot  of  the  problems  we've  been  talking

(48:12) about  today.  Uh  but  also  looks  at  the

(48:15) arts  at  classical  music  at  museums  uh

(48:18) the  sort  of  thing  that  the  Trump

(48:20) administration  is  now  talking  about  with

(48:22) regards  to  the  Smithsonian.  Um

(48:26) so  that  it  sadly  remains  extremely

(48:29) relevant  because  uh  the  disperate  impact

(48:32) ideology  is  still  powerful  in  elite

(48:36) institutions.

(48:37) And  before  that  I  wrote  the  diversity

(48:39) delusion  which  is  focused  exclusively  on

(48:43) academia  and  the  travesty  that  higher

(48:46) education  has  become.  And  then  before

(48:48) that  inspired  by  the  uh  Ferguson  riots

(48:52) and  the  growing  anti-cop  sentiment  was

(48:55) uh  the  war  on  cops.  And  then  there's

(48:58) some  beyond  before  that  as  well  but  I'm

(49:00) not  going  to  go  into  all  of  them.

(49:02) >> Yeah.  No,  it's  amazing.  Um,  you  know,  I

(49:05) I  I  knew  you  peripherally  back  in  the

(49:08) day.  Um,  and  uh,  you  know,  were  you  an

(49:11) English  major,  literature  major?

(49:14) >> I  was  an  English  major  and  and  did  some

(49:16) postgraduate  work.  Yeah.

(49:18) >> Yeah.  It's  a  funny  path.  I  mean,  I  you

(49:20) may  or  may  not  have  time  to  tell  us  how

(49:22) you  how  you  arrived  at  this  particular

(49:24) spot.  I  know  law  school  and  all  that

(49:26) kind  of  stuff.  Um,  if  you  have  time,

(49:28) otherwise  we'll  call  it  a  day.  You  tell

(49:30) me.

(49:31) >> No,  I  don't  have  time.  As  I  told  you,  I

(49:33) I  need  it's  a  hard  hard  break.  I  need  to

(49:35) get  out.

(49:35) >> Thank  you  so  much,  Heather.  Appreciate

(49:36) it.  Heather  McDonald,  City  Journal,

(49:38) Manhattan  Institute.